tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post2276733005503907857..comments2024-03-10T05:06:25.309-04:00Comments on Livia Blackburne: On Writing Realistic Male Characters (aka, Men Are Jerks)Livia Blackburnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-14577535645435571432013-04-03T01:11:55.877-04:002013-04-03T01:11:55.877-04:00Also:
I have a theory that men who choose to hid...Also: <br /><br />I have a theory that men who choose to hide their perceptiveness or are consciously ignoring it, do so because the world is easier that way. <br /><br />Nobody asks you to drive them to the airport if they think you can't drive.------https://www.blogger.com/profile/17908999968276386220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-37710337390005729582013-04-02T23:59:05.036-04:002013-04-02T23:59:05.036-04:00I'm a little late to the discussion but here w...I'm a little late to the discussion but here we go:<br /><br />Male characters- men in real life- are very capable of empathy. Some are even good at it, whether they admit it to themselves or the people around them.<br /><br />That being said, the many hide behind a facade of faux-ignorance which comes from fear and from expectation. There are some who are plain ignorant.<br /><br />It might be male tradition to do a little bit of rough-housing and shot-taking in a friendly way, but that's superseded by the human habit of being hurt, being aware of hurt and understanding it, which is not restricted to any gender.<br /><br />For example, after a horrible break up, the not-very-masculine man crying secretly in his room and the overly-masculine man losing himself in a blur of alchohol, bright lights and twisted bed sheets (or ruthless overclocking at work) are both reacting in different ways to the same thing- they are both hurt and they both need to grieve.<br /><br />Correct me if I'm wrong, but male and female psyches exist on a spectrum. On opposite ends, you have your stereotypes (the ultra masculine, insensitive, coldly logical man and the overly emotional, ultra empathic, illogical woman) which seems to be the idea that your friends are selling.<br /><br />Speaking realistically, most people exist on somewhere in the middle. The most interesting people exist in the middle. There's variety there and where there's variety, there's the opportunity to have depth and context which are strong forces in writing.<br /><br />The point of writing is to reflect and reveal all the most horrid, wonderful and interesting aspects of human nature. <br /><br />Why would you want to restrict yourself to the stereotypes on the ends when have a chance to play in that delicious, uncertain, fluctuating middle?------https://www.blogger.com/profile/17908999968276386220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-27074973271911824572011-03-28T20:10:09.432-04:002011-03-28T20:10:09.432-04:00Great post! I've been writing from a male POV ...Great post! I've been writing from a male POV too and find myself struggling to both be "accurate" with the gender of the voice and not be stereotypical. I really am enjoying this character - his outer life/voice is so different than my own as a woman that his inner life can be actually closer to mine...<br />Here's me blathering more on it: http://storiesaregoodmedicine.blogspot.com/2011/03/he-saidshe-said-writing-ya-across.html<br />LM Preston also recently wrote a nice post about writing from "boy" which she says is freeing:<br />http://lmpreston.blogspot.com/2011/03/girl-vs-boy-whats-easier-to-write.htmlSayantanihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11408914738803274489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-37579361198778726262011-03-16T19:42:03.116-04:002011-03-16T19:42:03.116-04:00Andrew -- my best guesses:
1. It's easy to i...Andrew -- my best guesses:<br /><br />1. It's easy to ignore lyrics, hard to ignore tunes. So when you're hearing something on the radio, much easier to encode the melody while ignoring the words<br /><br />2. There is an inherent structure to music that makes it easier to remember. I bet it would be much harder to remember just random notes in no particular orderLivia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-88665544897107688172011-03-14T17:52:18.651-04:002011-03-14T17:52:18.651-04:00Men are jerks because we can. 'Nuff said.
Any...Men are jerks because we can. 'Nuff said.<br /><br />Anyways I had a completely unrelated question for you: Why is it really easy to remember the tune but hard to remember the lyrics of a song? I can hum a million songs but don't ask me to sing any of them. Why is the brain so finicky about lyrics?Andrew Rosenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09215333688753781447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-84151301411048477222011-03-09T01:16:58.085-05:002011-03-09T01:16:58.085-05:00I have to admit, I'm female, but have a horrib...I have to admit, I'm female, but have a horrible problem with laughing, um, inappropriately. Let's just say I went in with my husband for his vasectomy, and it was *hilarious*. #badwifeRobin Lemkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12254896327174187893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-61880187873895968352011-03-07T13:02:48.438-05:002011-03-07T13:02:48.438-05:00You know, you've misinterpreted your husband. ...You know, you've misinterpreted your husband. It really has *nothing* to do with making your character "meaner" and everything with making light of things.Daniel Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12214334186482741716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-10717837065936005782011-03-05T18:57:56.329-05:002011-03-05T18:57:56.329-05:00Andrea -- It's rather hard to find male perspe...Andrea -- It's rather hard to find male perspectives, I've found, at least in the kidlet world. So much estrogen :-)Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-69698607043168222532011-03-05T10:13:36.386-05:002011-03-05T10:13:36.386-05:00Shannon – good point about laughter being a good s...Shannon – good point about laughter being a good stress reliever<br />Boris – wait, you don't sit around with your guy friends and talk about your feelings?<br />coneycat -- that is HILARIOUS. I think young boys have an invincibility complex<br />Joseph – and of course, the whole running into a tree branch because of the pretty girl is totally hypothetical on your part and not do to personal experience right?<br />Chuck – I'm too young for the challenger, but I have noticed some guys making what in my opinion are pretty insensitive remarks about 9/11. I guess that's similar.<br />J.J. -- Wow, hardly anybody ever calls me feminine :-). My relationship style and humor style is more male than most, I think. Just take a look at my Facebook posts and you will probably see what I mean.Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-24647616351016562742011-03-05T08:12:59.139-05:002011-03-05T08:12:59.139-05:00I think it's a great idea to search out a male...I think it's a great idea to search out a male perspective when you have an all-female critique group. Men definitely think and react differently than women do. Good reminder.Andrea Mackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15250681746122381149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-28767744113267169172011-03-04T11:20:48.415-05:002011-03-04T11:20:48.415-05:00Livia I love your story, I mean about your husband...Livia I love your story, I mean about your husband. As a scientist, author, and woman, I really had to laugh twice, first because your mate has a sick sense of humor and second because so many of us expect a woman won't. I share the perversely mean sense of humor of many of my male friends, and routinely horrify my female friends if I'm not very very careful to edit what I say. Not to mention my daughters, who are likely to cry. <br />We all have a balance of what are thought of as male and female in the psyche--your notes show you to be quite rich in the female side so why not just enjoy writing it exactly as you feel it? Your guys will just be gentle guys with well developed anima--like Baldwin or Maugham. I love those guys!J.J.Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00363646466988882266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-21318487791639891692011-03-03T13:48:50.357-05:002011-03-03T13:48:50.357-05:00Men and women are hard wired to have different rol...Men and women are hard wired to have different rolls in life and while there are occasional exceptions modern civilization and society has not changed that. Women are nurturers and men are hunter gatherers. These two traits form an essential yin yang relationship that is essential to the survival of the species. We may not like it but there is little that we can do about it. Men frequently respond to adversity with what can only be called gallows humor while women usually respond with an effort to assist and soothe. These responses are holdovers from our primitive beginnings and are as difficult to remove from our being as drawing your hand away from a flame or blinking at a bright light. You may remember the humorous responses to the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster where seven astronauts died. There were many insensitive and even cruel jokes made about the event, many of which came from NASA personnel them selves. Why do we laugh at such things? Because it hurts too much to cry.Profchuckhttp://skyvolts.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-66499354176094503062011-03-03T12:50:24.097-05:002011-03-03T12:50:24.097-05:00"This story will be retold to his grandchildr..."This story will be retold to his grandchildren."<br /><br />Too true. ;)Mirthhttp://mirthalia.tumblr.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-85676499015825610602011-03-03T11:50:07.613-05:002011-03-03T11:50:07.613-05:00To address the specific example from your writing,...To address the specific example from your writing, it illustrates the speed at which a person processes a situation. Friend falls off the horse. Without speaking, you assess whether the person is injured or in serious danger. If so, you immediately move to assist. He's your friend after all.<br /><br />If he is not injured or in serious danger, you make fun of him to a degree accordant with why he fell off. Did the horse slip? This warrants a couple days of ribbing. That kind of thing happens to everyone. Was he looking at a girl and run into a tree branch? This story will be retold to his grandchildren.<br /><br /><br />And falling off a horse isn't that terrifying an event. Anyone that works regularly with horses will have been thrown before. A friend of mine who is a horse trainer used to keep a tally on her website of how many times she was thrown from a horse. The number was higher than I had expected. The only time there was any genuine concern was when one of the horses then kicked her in the head. That's a bigger deal.Joseph L. Selbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16629531390894108695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-14492300326060009522011-03-03T10:29:08.161-05:002011-03-03T10:29:08.161-05:00I heard a good example of this at the barn where I...I heard a good example of this at the barn where I keep my horse a few days ago. The barn owners hire teenage boys from their church to move hay and do various maintenance jobs. They don't know much about horses, but they're occasionally asked to lead horses in or out of the barn to or from the turnout pens. They're really nice kids.<br /><br />Saturday three of them began gleefully telling me about how the biggest horse in the barn reared up and yanked one of the boys "three feet up in the air! And then he went *flying*! You should have seen it!"<br /><br />Me: "I'm glad I didn't, I'd have had an old-lady heart attack!"<br /><br />Boy Who Flew: "No, no, it was AWESOME!"<br /><br />Me: "You could have been trampled!"<br /><br />Boy Who Flew: "I know!"<br /><br />His Brother and Their Friend: "It was the funniest thing we ever saw!"<br /><br />Oh, boys. Never change!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-70527686103134972432011-03-02T09:53:14.367-05:002011-03-02T09:53:14.367-05:00I think men are more complex than that, but while ...I think men are more complex than that, but while not every man will laugh at his buddy for falling of his horse, we do tend to be a bit more restrained with our feelings towards other men.<br />We're not meaner in any way to each other but a bit more coarser (not an english speaker, hope you get what I'm trying to say).<br />When I see my friend in some sort of pain, I tend to kid around with him, maybe even tease him about it. Trying to get them to talk about how they feel is not the way to go, really :).Borishttp://about.me/Fletlajnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-56846709896556580392011-03-01T23:43:33.688-05:002011-03-01T23:43:33.688-05:00Well, laughter makes a good stress reliever so I&#...Well, laughter makes a good stress reliever so I'm not surprised men laugh when their friends get hurt. I think it does depend on the location first. In Adelaide, amongst my friends, there's normally a brief 'worried' laugh, followed by a query as to whether they're all right (if it looked serious), followed by more laughter and jokes if they're all right. It just clears the air in an 'I'm okay, you're okay' way. Because if someone wasn't okay, we wouldn't be laughing, right? Just so you know, I'm a girl but pretty much all my friends are guys.Shannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00456068019298922261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-1737611530101072532011-03-01T23:04:54.993-05:002011-03-01T23:04:54.993-05:00Mirth - oh dear…
Simon – I think I would be rathe...Mirth - oh dear…<br /><br />Simon – I think I would be rather intimidated to hang out around such testosterone filled places<br /><br />Chris – I think the key detail here is that you first make sure an emergency room visit is not in order :-) that's what makes you good friends and not jerks :-)<br /><br />terri - that's interesting about the maternal instinct. I guess it would be rather bad if the mother burst out laughing too.<br /><br />Jake - I love how my answer "yes, they're very good friends"was followed immediately by "why isn't he laughing?" Very amusing, and telling.<br /><br />meg - I loved Taran from Lloyd Alexander. And yes, he does seem to be more sensitive guy.<br /><br />Alicia – rougher is a good way to put it<br /><br />Ricki – glad you were amused :-)Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-41838802566412780472011-03-01T12:29:36.931-05:002011-03-01T12:29:36.931-05:00Hee -- this is fantastic, Livia! Hope you're ...Hee -- this is fantastic, Livia! Hope you're doing well!Ricki Schultzhttp://www.rickischultz.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-49035395642472860662011-03-01T10:59:35.027-05:002011-03-01T10:59:35.027-05:00Great post. I always forget that guys are "ro...Great post. I always forget that guys are "rougher" than we are in friendship. I've bookmarked this one.Alicia Gregoirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06660125614529633284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-86051122342575230352011-03-01T10:00:55.439-05:002011-03-01T10:00:55.439-05:00I think this is one reason I've never tried to...I think this is one reason I've never tried to write from a male's perspective. I remember reading in a gender study that school girls are more likely to write stories about a boy (because girls aren't worthy of stories) but I never understood that myself. <br /><br />Interestingly, I sometimes find male characters written by males more vulnerable and less put-together--like in books by Lloyd Alexander or Robert Jordan. Much less so than the knights in shining armor types written by women.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05379614186579652334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-18350580545370736572011-03-01T05:10:34.272-05:002011-03-01T05:10:34.272-05:00I think it is a specific challenge to write from t...I think it is a specific challenge to write from the POV of the opposite gender. It'll probably take a few tries to get it right, except if you, like Karen said, have a lot of interaction with them.<br />Falling off a horse would not necessarily be a serious injury. If Jack somehow manages to stab himself in the stomach, resulting in serious injury, I think Tristam wouldn't laugh - at least not until after he knows Jack will be fine. (He might joke a little, but not so much.)<br />The interesting thing is that Tristam probably wouldn't laugh as easily if Jack was not a friend (Unless he really is a jerk). In general, people tend to behave better in front of strangers. (You'll note that J asked "Are they friends?", probably for this purpose.)<br /><br />Anyway, great post. Too bad writing from the female perspective is my problem.Jake Heneganhttp://writinginmediasres.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-43243198928612926932011-03-01T02:43:52.339-05:002011-03-01T02:43:52.339-05:00Laughter at a fall, spill, slip, trip, banging a h...Laughter at a fall, spill, slip, trip, banging a head against an open door, has little to do with which chromosome is strongest. It's the surprise, the random flailing by the victim, that is super funny to the observer.<br /><br />As a woman, with four grown daughters, there was a different reaction if it was one of my children having a mishap. But if it was friend, family, or anyone in the adult range (over 16), male or female, my first reaction is always explosive laughter. The wilder the incident, the more I laugh... Usually, but not always, after I'm assured they are still breathing and mobile. I have still been laughing while holding compresses and calling 911...<br /><br />So I propose it's not the X or Y chromosome that makes us jerks but the role or connection to the victim that changes our reaction.<br /><br />When I see someone fall off a horse I usually hold my breath until they are upright but then I start laughing, it really is an incident of high hilarity to watch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-42650474673416295992011-02-28T20:48:03.752-05:002011-02-28T20:48:03.752-05:00Growing up, my friends and I quickly learned to as...Growing up, my friends and I quickly learned to assess an injury while doing something. Even if there was blood, if there was cringing and swearing, we all laughed. It wasn't a mean laugh; in ways, it was a way to help a hurt friend through a moment of pain.<br /><br />If it was a bad injury, we could all recognize it by the injured friend's reaction. In those cases, we all got serious and did everything we could to help the hurt friend.<br /><br />With my group of friends, there was always a lot of honesty. If somebody was physically or emotionally hurt and the friend said, "Yeah," when asked, "You okay?" joking was fair game. I consider myself lucky to have very considerate friends. We have all been in long term relationships and are very open and DO talk about our feelings and what's on our minds.<br /><br />But even as we all cross from our 30s into our 40s, if one of us trips and does a faceplant--the moment we know an emergency room visit is not in order--we're laughing and giving each other a hard time. (The best I can figure for why we laugh...it takes your mind off the pain when you're the hurt one. If I'm hurt and my friends are laughing and I don't want to get up and hurt them for laughing, I know I'm going to be all right and laugh about things later.)Christopher Gronlundhttp://www.thejugglingwriter.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-20889536843567966092011-02-28T20:17:28.938-05:002011-02-28T20:17:28.938-05:00For a *real* lesson in how men generally treat eac...For a *real* lesson in how men generally treat each other, I recommend hanging around a construction trailer at break time, or a dive bar at happy hour. I'd prefer the bar, myself, but either one would do for your purposes.<br /><br />Verbal abuse is the order of the day, darlin'. It's just how things are done. (Well, for certain subsets of maledom, anyway. The physical labor trades--and squires would probably be included in this--tend to be a bit rough in their interactions.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com