tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post2767186445901983473..comments2024-03-10T05:06:25.309-04:00Comments on Livia Blackburne: Beyond the Sandwich Method: What I Learned About Critiquing From My EditorsLivia Blackburnehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-3535203218492527212013-12-07T07:08:20.143-05:002013-12-07T07:08:20.143-05:00As a writing coach, I`m much more often on the giv...As a writing coach, I`m much more often on the giving than the receiving end of feedback. One of the best questions seems a bit dumb at first, but I`ve found it most helpful, especially for first-time authors: What EXACTLY do you want to say her? (What exactly happened, whar exactly does the protagonist think/feel/do here?) Which, put another way, simply reminds the writer to be precise and choose the strongest words and sentences possible.Sonjahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03198310188951295721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-76975936656182422552013-03-26T10:12:52.956-04:002013-03-26T10:12:52.956-04:00For me, the most helpful editorial feedback is wha...For me, the most helpful editorial feedback is what you touched on already: the stuff that's not coming from someone's personal opinion ("that guy"). And by "opinion," I mean ideas that aren't related to narrative theory/principles of narrative construction. It's amazing how many self-proclaimed editors & consultants don't seem to know the difference.steveburkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16677628125501365793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-406890625288231432013-03-20T17:48:50.321-04:002013-03-20T17:48:50.321-04:00Michael - I'm very much for negative feedback,...Michael - I'm very much for negative feedback, even with fiction. Like you said, better to get it in private than in public later on! So my take away for this article is not so much that you shouldn't give criticism, but that criticism is more effective when phrased in a positive way. Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-82486220942888107612013-03-20T17:48:20.392-04:002013-03-20T17:48:20.392-04:00Not placing yourself about the person you're c...Not placing yourself about the person you're critiquing sounds like a great policy, Johnny.Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-60464845140259608432013-03-20T14:13:11.637-04:002013-03-20T14:13:11.637-04:00Interesting post and looking forward to the next! ...Interesting post and looking forward to the next! :) In my own writing I tend to *want* more negatives from friends... because I know my "enemies" are gonna be out for blood. LOL! Better to take the arrows in private and fix the chinks in your armor before you take it out to the battlefield for real!<br /><br />Fiction writing is a bit different though: no one's going to be actively trying to find ways to attack your work, and your main concern is simply producing something that people will enjoy. So when you ask someone to look it over and give feedback, they should either give the "enjoyment" sort of feedback or, if it's something you want, an "editing" sort of feedback. Your posting on the topic brings out some good details of thought about what goes into feedback overall!<br /><br />Extra note: that summary of UNRAVELED is GREAT!!! If I had a YA daughter/friend right now it's certainly something I'd get for her!<br /><br /> :)<br />MJMMichael J. McFaddenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181949578184965482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-81967814221736280192013-03-19T17:17:39.538-04:002013-03-19T17:17:39.538-04:00Thank you for this most helpful post. As a former ...Thank you for this most helpful post. As a former music critic, I would never place myself above the person on the receiving end. I would always engage the ones I was critiquing in order that they might glean from my observations. I always asked for their imput, and as you put it, would suggest additional techniques in which they could improve their delivery. Good read. Blessings. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17469112648001984904noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-10599286056261881272013-03-19T16:13:42.179-04:002013-03-19T16:13:42.179-04:00John - I agree. It's actually one of my pet pe...John - I agree. It's actually one of my pet peeves when people trash manuscripts and say they're just being "brutally honest." I don't really buy that. If you are good enough writer to offer writing advice, then you should be a good enough writer to phrase it in a way so that it'll come across well.<br />Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-90182139188452542192013-03-19T16:13:18.308-04:002013-03-19T16:13:18.308-04:00Lindsay -- I totally get what you mean by being fo...Lindsay -- I totally get what you mean by being forced to examine things that you've avoided. I totally avoid things. You know, menial things like character motivation and arc :-) and I need a good critique to pull me back in line.Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-85798344384254345672013-03-19T16:12:50.349-04:002013-03-19T16:12:50.349-04:00Sylvia – I like questions too! It's amazing ho...Sylvia – I like questions too! It's amazing how they help you flesh out your story.<br />Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-55788821732041476822013-03-19T16:12:33.272-04:002013-03-19T16:12:33.272-04:00Jeanne - I like the sandwich method, though I find...Jeanne - I like the sandwich method, though I find that I can still get lazy from following it. I think of these tips as something that reminds me to take the extra step beyond "I like this, didn't like that, liked this" and to engage with the material a bit more<br />Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-22425933823987187412013-03-19T16:12:16.050-04:002013-03-19T16:12:16.050-04:00Sharon, I hope your critique group finds it useful...Sharon, I hope your critique group finds it useful!<br />Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-33958481436130158682013-03-19T16:12:07.272-04:002013-03-19T16:12:07.272-04:00glad you found it useful Courtney!glad you found it useful Courtney!Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-58303775376869146192013-03-19T16:11:39.527-04:002013-03-19T16:11:39.527-04:00Thanks Mira. I can't take credit for the "...Thanks Mira. I can't take credit for the "increasing the awesome" phrase though. I picked that up from a random YouTube video about science research of all thingsLivia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-9524517499504270392013-03-19T16:11:22.980-04:002013-03-19T16:11:22.980-04:00That's a great example of framing a comment po...That's a great example of framing a comment positively, Joanne!Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-21459638460180706382013-03-19T14:35:37.117-04:002013-03-19T14:35:37.117-04:00Yes, I agree with Lindsay's comments. As a cr...Yes, I agree with Lindsay's comments. As a creative writing teacher, finding how to say what I say is a far more challenging issue than finding what to say. And I think from student responses to various teachers at my university, it's fair to say that some teachers don't really care how they say anything. And that's too bad--because they actually have a lot to bring to the table. But what they say gets lost.John Vanderslicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09312030415504335029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-11674221068075268252013-03-19T10:31:46.091-04:002013-03-19T10:31:46.091-04:00This is a great post. Having written a blog post a...This is a great post. Having written a blog post about critiquing - quite devoid of useful information I'm afraid - I'd like to put a link to this post if I may. I think being asked the 'good' questions is the most useful feedback as it really makes me examine aspects of my novel that I've either avoided, ignored or got stuck with or not clarified for my reader. Lindsayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04631254646368974136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-80524034625747379252013-03-19T08:20:43.796-04:002013-03-19T08:20:43.796-04:00Great points; I'll try to remember them next t...Great points; I'll try to remember them next time I critique work. I have found the questions are helpful because they force me to think more deeply about things like motivation.Sylvia Liuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13193486117318739814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-26858584642983105672013-03-19T06:46:51.840-04:002013-03-19T06:46:51.840-04:00I was taught the 'sandwich' method by a wr...I was taught the 'sandwich' method by a writer friend, and I have always tried my best to implement it. Once you have had someone use this method on your own writing, you fully understand it's benefits, and you generously apply it to your own critiquing. Thanks for the post, Livia. Very good, and inspiring advice! <br />Jeanne <br />http://warriorechidna.blogspot.com Jeannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13035082086690245771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-87107118805765606902013-03-19T06:21:23.478-04:002013-03-19T06:21:23.478-04:00Very good tips! I'm sending this to my critiqu...Very good tips! I'm sending this to my critique group. Even though I'm self-published, working with an editor has greatly improved my writing - and how I approach self-editing. I feel it helped me make a huge leap upward on the learning the craft ladder.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11760763069942564418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-58870086495113544192013-03-19T00:22:49.609-04:002013-03-19T00:22:49.609-04:00I love these...I am tagging this to be a tool to u...I love these...I am tagging this to be a tool to use with my own writing!<br /><br />Thank yoU!Courtney Barr - The Southern Princesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14455508477182984039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-26341793831283118642013-03-18T20:55:23.153-04:002013-03-18T20:55:23.153-04:00I like these. I especially liked the one about in...I like these. I especially liked the one about increasing the awesome. That's excellent. :)Mirahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558405035294107657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-2926477193660807992013-03-18T19:52:13.601-04:002013-03-18T19:52:13.601-04:00I'm not published (yet?) but I've been to ...I'm not published (yet?) but I've been to writing conferences where editors have critiqued my work, and of course I have a crit group. I love comments like: "Can you find a stronger way to say this?" instead of "This is weak." It's the same thing, but so much kinder. So yeah, I prefer the spoonful of sugar method and I try to remember to critique that way myself. <br /><br />But I also like your first two tips. I'm going to try to use those more.Joanne R. Fritzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08076959910493197255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-88014494620653246242013-03-18T17:46:44.656-04:002013-03-18T17:46:44.656-04:00Caroline -- me too! I've learned so much.Caroline -- me too! I've learned so much.Livia Blackburnehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15805379309049803903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8503889855562099029.post-62156816802834185652013-03-18T13:14:39.030-04:002013-03-18T13:14:39.030-04:00I felt like editorial rounds with my first novel w...I felt like editorial rounds with my first novel were like a one-on-one intensive in writing. It was an incredible way to learn and grow as a writer and critiquer.Caroline Starr Rosehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04597510685273079757noreply@blogger.com